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	<title>Comments on: LED Puck Design Questions</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?feed=rss2&#038;p=193" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193</link>
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		<title>By: Onestone</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-22188</link>
		<dc:creator>Onestone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 19:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-22188</guid>
		<description>The bq24030 from Ti is perfect for this kind of charging application, but is surface mount. It is designed for in-line charging applications where the device is normally connected to mains power, and handles the balance between circuit demand and current delivery to the battery charge circuit seamlessly. When used as an off line charger it does lose a little efficiency running in stand alone, but when connected to the charging source it will balance power delivery very nicely. It also accepts a very wide range of charging input voltage, making the design of an inductive coupler much simpler (no need for regulation etc, just a zener to limit the voltage to 15V). Lithium poly foil packs are quite cheap if you are buying for OEM use. I pay under $2.50 for 280mAh packs with over charge protection circuitry built in. Less for large orders. Surface mount is cheap if you&#039;re making a few, but possibly too hard for amateurs. Most LED development is in surface mount so the very brightest LEDs are available in SMD format</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bq24030 from Ti is perfect for this kind of charging application, but is surface mount. It is designed for in-line charging applications where the device is normally connected to mains power, and handles the balance between circuit demand and current delivery to the battery charge circuit seamlessly. When used as an off line charger it does lose a little efficiency running in stand alone, but when connected to the charging source it will balance power delivery very nicely. It also accepts a very wide range of charging input voltage, making the design of an inductive coupler much simpler (no need for regulation etc, just a zener to limit the voltage to 15V). Lithium poly foil packs are quite cheap if you are buying for OEM use. I pay under $2.50 for 280mAh packs with over charge protection circuitry built in. Less for large orders. Surface mount is cheap if you&#8217;re making a few, but possibly too hard for amateurs. Most LED development is in surface mount so the very brightest LEDs are available in SMD format</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21183</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21183</guid>
		<description>Joe, thanks for the Chumby link.  If I read the forum correctly, Chumby actually &lt;em&gt;doesn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; have a battery charger built in -- my mistake.

The circuit shown is a hacker&#039;s contribution, and I&#039;d want to look it over a little more closely before using it than if it were Bunnie&#039;s design.

One consideration in the puck is that I&#039;d like to be able to plug it into USB and have it both drive the lights and charge the battery.  16 LEDs at 25mA is 400mA total, and some LEDs I just got can probably take 50mA, so 800mA total.

I understand that USB can supply 100mA or 500mA, which means we couldn&#039;t run 50mA per LED off USB power.  But it also complicates (I think) the charging design, to try to maintain a constant current to the battery whilst the battery is being used at the same time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, thanks for the Chumby link.  If I read the forum correctly, Chumby actually <em>doesn&#8217;t</em> have a battery charger built in &#8212; my mistake.</p>
<p>The circuit shown is a hacker&#8217;s contribution, and I&#8217;d want to look it over a little more closely before using it than if it were Bunnie&#8217;s design.</p>
<p>One consideration in the puck is that I&#8217;d like to be able to plug it into USB and have it both drive the lights and charge the battery.  16 LEDs at 25mA is 400mA total, and some LEDs I just got can probably take 50mA, so 800mA total.</p>
<p>I understand that USB can supply 100mA or 500mA, which means we couldn&#8217;t run 50mA per LED off USB power.  But it also complicates (I think) the charging design, to try to maintain a constant current to the battery whilst the battery is being used at the same time.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21181</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21181</guid>
		<description>http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?id=13

Here is a link to the charging circuit on the Chumby.  I didn&#039;t realize that it was designed for a rechargeable battery.  I wonder why it doesn&#039;t ship with one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?id=13" rel="nofollow">http://forum.chumby.com/viewtopic.php?id=13</a></p>
<p>Here is a link to the charging circuit on the Chumby.  I didn&#8217;t realize that it was designed for a rechargeable battery.  I wonder why it doesn&#8217;t ship with one.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21110</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21110</guid>
		<description>David, you offered to check with some RF engineers on inductive charging techniques if I was interested; and if you can really do that, I&#039;d like to take you up on it.

For the past couple of weeks, I&#039;ve carried the puck idea around in my head and thought about times I&#039;d use it.  In doing so, I&#039;ve come up with two decisions of much higher importance to me than I had guessed at first:  It needs to have a magnetic base so it can be stuck to things, and it needs to be water-resistant enough to use underwater for a few hours.

Water resistance will be far easier to accomplish if the puck doesn&#039;t have a charging port penetrating its case, so I think inductive charging (besides being just plain cool) is a fantastic idea.  Would you mind looking into that?

As a fallback plan, I&#039;ve been thinking about the pager &quot;coasters&quot; you get when there&#039;s a waiting line at chain restaurants.  They have a couple of contacts on the bottom to charge when placed on a base (and corresponding pins on top to charge the next one up in a stack, but that&#039;s not relevant here).  We could probably waterproof metal pads recessed into the bottom of the case, and diode-protect the system from discharging through the pads in (impure) water.

But inductive charging would be nicer, if it can be made practicable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you offered to check with some RF engineers on inductive charging techniques if I was interested; and if you can really do that, I&#8217;d like to take you up on it.</p>
<p>For the past couple of weeks, I&#8217;ve carried the puck idea around in my head and thought about times I&#8217;d use it.  In doing so, I&#8217;ve come up with two decisions of much higher importance to me than I had guessed at first:  It needs to have a magnetic base so it can be stuck to things, and it needs to be water-resistant enough to use underwater for a few hours.</p>
<p>Water resistance will be far easier to accomplish if the puck doesn&#8217;t have a charging port penetrating its case, so I think inductive charging (besides being just plain cool) is a fantastic idea.  Would you mind looking into that?</p>
<p>As a fallback plan, I&#8217;ve been thinking about the pager &#8220;coasters&#8221; you get when there&#8217;s a waiting line at chain restaurants.  They have a couple of contacts on the bottom to charge when placed on a base (and corresponding pins on top to charge the next one up in a stack, but that&#8217;s not relevant here).  We could probably waterproof metal pads recessed into the bottom of the case, and diode-protect the system from discharging through the pads in (impure) water.</p>
<p>But inductive charging would be nicer, if it can be made practicable.</p>
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		<title>By: David Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21066</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21066</guid>
		<description>I did a quick search on Inductive charging and found several links to expore. 

Of course Wikipedia has tons.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging

Here is an article that had me lauging so hard I amost passed out. Yes it&#039;s about inductive charinging.. A mouse that charges through it&#039;s pad. Why do funny, go see for yourself..
http://www.afrotechmods.com/cheap/arnoldpad/arnold.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did a quick search on Inductive charging and found several links to expore. </p>
<p>Of course Wikipedia has tons.. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging</a></p>
<p>Here is an article that had me lauging so hard I amost passed out. Yes it&#8217;s about inductive charinging.. A mouse that charges through it&#8217;s pad. Why do funny, go see for yourself..<br />
<a href="http://www.afrotechmods.com/cheap/arnoldpad/arnold.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.afrotechmods.com/cheap/arnoldpad/arnold.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: David Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21065</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 06:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21065</guid>
		<description>Resin or Lexan is fine. A non-magnetic metal box would work as well although you could have heating hysteresis and that would not be efficient. 

If you place the puck on top of the charging coil so that both the external and internal coils were close to each other, you should get good coupling. The primary concern will be the distance between the coils. Magnetic energy drops of very fast so the coils need to be close.

There would be some interesting experiments to try. I am not an expert but I do know that this will work. I have seen similar technology. 

If you really want to try this I can do some research? I have access to an RF engineer or two who will know what we need.

If the puck is round, perhaps the charging coil can be wrapped around the outside. Then the puck could be placed inside the charging coil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Resin or Lexan is fine. A non-magnetic metal box would work as well although you could have heating hysteresis and that would not be efficient. </p>
<p>If you place the puck on top of the charging coil so that both the external and internal coils were close to each other, you should get good coupling. The primary concern will be the distance between the coils. Magnetic energy drops of very fast so the coils need to be close.</p>
<p>There would be some interesting experiments to try. I am not an expert but I do know that this will work. I have seen similar technology. </p>
<p>If you really want to try this I can do some research? I have access to an RF engineer or two who will know what we need.</p>
<p>If the puck is round, perhaps the charging coil can be wrapped around the outside. Then the puck could be placed inside the charging coil.</p>
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		<title>By: MsJaye</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21063</link>
		<dc:creator>MsJaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21063</guid>
		<description>David: do you know of any good references for circuit designs for induction charging? It&#039;s something I&#039;d love to play with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David: do you know of any good references for circuit designs for induction charging? It&#8217;s something I&#8217;d love to play with.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Neufeld</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21061</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Neufeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21061</guid>
		<description>David -- is there anything about induction charging that would work with potted resin and wouldn&#039;t work with waterproofed lexan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David &#8212; is there anything about induction charging that would work with potted resin and wouldn&#8217;t work with waterproofed lexan?</p>
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		<title>By: David Fowler</title>
		<link>http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193&#038;cpage=1#comment-21058</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fowler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.neufeld.newton.ks.us/electronics/?p=193#comment-21058</guid>
		<description>One idea for the resin potted unit is that you could use induction charging. That way no connector or external wires are needed. Add a coil of wire inside the potted puck and one in a charging base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One idea for the resin potted unit is that you could use induction charging. That way no connector or external wires are needed. Add a coil of wire inside the potted puck and one in a charging base.</p>
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